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		<title>Comment on Weekly Special: Open Engagement by edubacon</title>
		<link>http://edubacon.com/2009/06/23/weekly-special-open-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>edubacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 05:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edubacon.com/?p=40#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Another interesting thing on open engagement, but this time it&#039;s a project and tool: http://scratch.mit.edu/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another interesting thing on open engagement, but this time it&#8217;s a project and tool: <a href="http://scratch.mit.edu/" rel="nofollow">http://scratch.mit.edu/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Special: Multi-Modal and Multi-Path Learning by edubacon</title>
		<link>http://edubacon.com/2009/07/08/weekly-special-multi-modal-and-multi-path-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>edubacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edubacon.com/?p=44#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Seeing as they aren&#039;t even at version 1.0 of the engine, I&#039;m giving them some slack. Plus, I haven&#039;t played with it yet since I don&#039;t know Flash. However, I do believe they will get it working well, and look forward to playing with it.

As for your question, I&#039;d say motivate them. Show them the reasons for learning the subjects through experience. Why should they go down that path? That&#039;s the big question to answer for the player. A mechanic may be able to build the engine for a draw bridge, but what does he know about materials, physics, local conditions and so on that are related to the task of building the bridge? This is making related fields of study a part of the design in a player need or quest requirement style. Perhaps a quest or task has several ways to be accomplished. Changing up the ways that the particular task can be accomplished each time could improve the gameplay and encourage players to explore the other paths.

Perhaps a better example is a sailor. In navigation there are several subjects to study; astronomy, map reading, geometry, the sensors like sonar and so on. Each of these are related fields to nautical navigation. Each of those also have their own related fields. The network of related fields shows beneficial paths to follow. It&#039;s also how it works in real life. I started out as a computer science student, thought computer game design would be beneficial (and fun) and then added those to another area of interest, education. While working on team projects, I find going over effective communication to be beneficial, so it gets added in. In essence, the needs of the moment dictate the possible directions of going forward or retreating. Playing with those mechanics should give a natural motivation to the players and improve the game as a whole.

Another way to look at this is layering choices of specializing and generalizing. For instance the main subjects in school include math, science, reading, writing and so on. I choose math and science. In college I looked for a good combination of my skills and abilities in potential directions, which gave me a list of potential paths to choose from. They were specialized versions of math and science. First I choose to specialize in computers. Then I choose to specialize in general game design. This could be a variation on a class, skills or other growth mechanic. However, how you allow players to multi-class and go outside their class is where this gets tricky for balance and gameplay at the MMO level. 

Beyond that, I would need to know more about the specifics of the MMO design. The basic motivation pattern of expose, inspire and enable is really the key to me. The rest is just adapting it to the specifics of the game.

Another piece of advice I&#039;d give is to remember that in an MMO, if you allow the player to do something, somebody will do it. Then you are dealing with the social and community aspects of the MMO, which is a whole other area for introducing players to the ideas, but I urge caution in this path. Messing with community dynamics can be far more disastrous than messing with the game in the long run. You are expected to control the game, but the player community can be viewed as the realm owned by the players, not the game designers and developers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seeing as they aren&#8217;t even at version 1.0 of the engine, I&#8217;m giving them some slack. Plus, I haven&#8217;t played with it yet since I don&#8217;t know Flash. However, I do believe they will get it working well, and look forward to playing with it.</p>
<p>As for your question, I&#8217;d say motivate them. Show them the reasons for learning the subjects through experience. Why should they go down that path? That&#8217;s the big question to answer for the player. A mechanic may be able to build the engine for a draw bridge, but what does he know about materials, physics, local conditions and so on that are related to the task of building the bridge? This is making related fields of study a part of the design in a player need or quest requirement style. Perhaps a quest or task has several ways to be accomplished. Changing up the ways that the particular task can be accomplished each time could improve the gameplay and encourage players to explore the other paths.</p>
<p>Perhaps a better example is a sailor. In navigation there are several subjects to study; astronomy, map reading, geometry, the sensors like sonar and so on. Each of these are related fields to nautical navigation. Each of those also have their own related fields. The network of related fields shows beneficial paths to follow. It&#8217;s also how it works in real life. I started out as a computer science student, thought computer game design would be beneficial (and fun) and then added those to another area of interest, education. While working on team projects, I find going over effective communication to be beneficial, so it gets added in. In essence, the needs of the moment dictate the possible directions of going forward or retreating. Playing with those mechanics should give a natural motivation to the players and improve the game as a whole.</p>
<p>Another way to look at this is layering choices of specializing and generalizing. For instance the main subjects in school include math, science, reading, writing and so on. I choose math and science. In college I looked for a good combination of my skills and abilities in potential directions, which gave me a list of potential paths to choose from. They were specialized versions of math and science. First I choose to specialize in computers. Then I choose to specialize in general game design. This could be a variation on a class, skills or other growth mechanic. However, how you allow players to multi-class and go outside their class is where this gets tricky for balance and gameplay at the MMO level. </p>
<p>Beyond that, I would need to know more about the specifics of the MMO design. The basic motivation pattern of expose, inspire and enable is really the key to me. The rest is just adapting it to the specifics of the game.</p>
<p>Another piece of advice I&#8217;d give is to remember that in an MMO, if you allow the player to do something, somebody will do it. Then you are dealing with the social and community aspects of the MMO, which is a whole other area for introducing players to the ideas, but I urge caution in this path. Messing with community dynamics can be far more disastrous than messing with the game in the long run. You are expected to control the game, but the player community can be viewed as the realm owned by the players, not the game designers and developers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Special: Multi-Modal and Multi-Path Learning by axcho</title>
		<link>http://edubacon.com/2009/07/08/weekly-special-multi-modal-and-multi-path-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>axcho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edubacon.com/?p=44#comment-45</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really excited about making educational games, and I wish you the best of luck with that. However, I just spent four hours with the PushButton Engine trying to get a circle to show up on the screen! :p In its current iteration, it is a lot harder and more confusing to use the PushButton Engine than to just hack out a game in Flash.

I&#039;m hoping that as the engine gets developed further, it will become easier. At the moment I know they are catering to experienced users, and will eventually transition to making things really easier for beginners. I hear they will be selling an easy-to-use editing tool for people without a lot of programming experience, which I&#039;m looking forward to seeing. But as it stands, &quot;easy to use&quot; is not a phrase I&#039;d use to describe the engine. :p

Thanks for the post. What advice would you have for exposing new players in an educational MMO to different paths they might take, which would have them learn different subjects?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really excited about making educational games, and I wish you the best of luck with that. However, I just spent four hours with the PushButton Engine trying to get a circle to show up on the screen! :p In its current iteration, it is a lot harder and more confusing to use the PushButton Engine than to just hack out a game in Flash.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hoping that as the engine gets developed further, it will become easier. At the moment I know they are catering to experienced users, and will eventually transition to making things really easier for beginners. I hear they will be selling an easy-to-use editing tool for people without a lot of programming experience, which I&#8217;m looking forward to seeing. But as it stands, &#8220;easy to use&#8221; is not a phrase I&#8217;d use to describe the engine. :p</p>
<p>Thanks for the post. What advice would you have for exposing new players in an educational MMO to different paths they might take, which would have them learn different subjects?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Special: Open Engagement by edubacon</title>
		<link>http://edubacon.com/2009/06/23/weekly-special-open-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>edubacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edubacon.com/?p=40#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Something I came across today that I no longer remember how it came to be in my path, another talk, but not a TED talk, though it is fitting to be one.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0D91DA11499ADCD9</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something I came across today that I no longer remember how it came to be in my path, another talk, but not a TED talk, though it is fitting to be one.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0D91DA11499ADCD9" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0D91DA11499ADCD9</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Special: Open Engagement by edubacon</title>
		<link>http://edubacon.com/2009/06/23/weekly-special-open-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>edubacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edubacon.com/?p=40#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Personally, I think schooling is a form of education and that education is a part of what schools do.

&quot;the education a person receives at school&quot; - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/schooling

I truly mean education, inside and outside of school. Schools just happen to be the obvious target. From what I&#039;ve seen there have been plenty of education efforts that fall into the same pitfalls most schools do. As always though, there are plenty of pockets of good to great teaching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think schooling is a form of education and that education is a part of what schools do.</p>
<p>&#8220;the education a person receives at school&#8221; &#8211; <a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/schooling" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefreedictionary.com/schooling</a></p>
<p>I truly mean education, inside and outside of school. Schools just happen to be the obvious target. From what I&#8217;ve seen there have been plenty of education efforts that fall into the same pitfalls most schools do. As always though, there are plenty of pockets of good to great teaching.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Special: Open Engagement by Alana James</title>
		<link>http://edubacon.com/2009/06/23/weekly-special-open-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Alana James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edubacon.com/?p=40#comment-34</guid>
		<description>are you mixing up education with schooling? 
Do you see them as the same thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>are you mixing up education with schooling?<br />
Do you see them as the same thing?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Special: Open Engagement by edubacon</title>
		<link>http://edubacon.com/2009/06/23/weekly-special-open-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>edubacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edubacon.com/?p=40#comment-33</guid>
		<description>I agree with you Nate. There is a lot of potential in those directions. The one thing I think should be included in teacher efforts in open engagement in that direction is keeping the private channels of communication open. I&#039;ve noticed that some people go too far when they try this direction. It&#039;s not a matter of open vs closed, but rather including open engagement like you described. Though I have seen teachers try to encourage this kind of effort only to have the students not participate.

Stephen Downes linked to this post and the blog in his newsletter OLDaily ( http://www.downes.ca/news/OLDaily.htm , http://www.downes.ca/cgi-bin/page.cgi?post=49431 ).

Also, there was an interesting article ( http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1014663.ece ) mentioned in the same issue of the newsletter by Stephen Downes. It talks about how engagement was used to improve the quality of a school&#039;s education and results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you Nate. There is a lot of potential in those directions. The one thing I think should be included in teacher efforts in open engagement in that direction is keeping the private channels of communication open. I&#8217;ve noticed that some people go too far when they try this direction. It&#8217;s not a matter of open vs closed, but rather including open engagement like you described. Though I have seen teachers try to encourage this kind of effort only to have the students not participate.</p>
<p>Stephen Downes linked to this post and the blog in his newsletter OLDaily ( <a href="http://www.downes.ca/news/OLDaily.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.downes.ca/news/OLDaily.htm</a> , <a href="http://www.downes.ca/cgi-bin/page.cgi?post=49431" rel="nofollow">http://www.downes.ca/cgi-bin/page.cgi?post=49431</a> ).</p>
<p>Also, there was an interesting article ( <a href="http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1014663.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1014663.ece</a> ) mentioned in the same issue of the newsletter by Stephen Downes. It talks about how engagement was used to improve the quality of a school&#8217;s education and results.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Special: Open Engagement by Nate O</title>
		<link>http://edubacon.com/2009/06/23/weekly-special-open-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edubacon.com/?p=40#comment-26</guid>
		<description>I think an important part of &quot;open&quot; is that teachers and students should share what they are doing with people outside their classroom. An open lesson is one that outsiders can follow along with or review in the archives (and the &quot;inside&quot; students can go back to later as well). Most classrooms don&#039;t consider how the lessons could be opened. Teachers focus on the students in front of them to the exclusion of those who are not. 

I like a model of a class where the teacher and students collaboratively build up a record of what has been learned. I tried this from a student&#039;s perspective when I was in college, building collaborative study guides on Google Docs with my classmates. It worked well to study for a test, and when the classes were over, everybody who participated has a record of the completed study guides if they want to go back and reexamine some of the same questions later on. The number of people who participated in actually creating the content in these docs was about 10% of the people who viewed them, so there is a bit of a free-riding problem, but I think participation could be improved if it were the teacher who instigated the process and integrated it with the class.

I have not encountered any teachers who facilitated this approach from the get-go, but I think it could be a good way to encourage openness in education. (Can&#039;t wait for the Google Wave to make this even nicer. Embedding Google Docs in a blog is alright, but could be improved.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think an important part of &#8220;open&#8221; is that teachers and students should share what they are doing with people outside their classroom. An open lesson is one that outsiders can follow along with or review in the archives (and the &#8220;inside&#8221; students can go back to later as well). Most classrooms don&#8217;t consider how the lessons could be opened. Teachers focus on the students in front of them to the exclusion of those who are not. </p>
<p>I like a model of a class where the teacher and students collaboratively build up a record of what has been learned. I tried this from a student&#8217;s perspective when I was in college, building collaborative study guides on Google Docs with my classmates. It worked well to study for a test, and when the classes were over, everybody who participated has a record of the completed study guides if they want to go back and reexamine some of the same questions later on. The number of people who participated in actually creating the content in these docs was about 10% of the people who viewed them, so there is a bit of a free-riding problem, but I think participation could be improved if it were the teacher who instigated the process and integrated it with the class.</p>
<p>I have not encountered any teachers who facilitated this approach from the get-go, but I think it could be a good way to encourage openness in education. (Can&#8217;t wait for the Google Wave to make this even nicer. Embedding Google Docs in a blog is alright, but could be improved.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Special: Assesment by edubacon</title>
		<link>http://edubacon.com/2009/06/15/weekly-special-assesment/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>edubacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edubacon.com/?p=37#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s another contribution from Eliane Alhadeff : http://elianealhadeff.blogspot.com/2008/08/serious-games-embed-new-metrics.html

All contributions are appreciated, regardless of whether the topic is the current one or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another contribution from Eliane Alhadeff : <a href="http://elianealhadeff.blogspot.com/2008/08/serious-games-embed-new-metrics.html" rel="nofollow">http://elianealhadeff.blogspot.com/2008/08/serious-games-embed-new-metrics.html</a></p>
<p>All contributions are appreciated, regardless of whether the topic is the current one or not.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Special: Motivating Learners by Weekly Special: Open Engagement at EduBacon</title>
		<link>http://edubacon.com/2009/06/08/weekly-special-motivating-learners/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekly Special: Open Engagement at EduBacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edubacon.com/?p=28#comment-21</guid>
		<description>[...] Engagement isn&#8217;t just physical, it&#8217;s mental, emotional, temporal and much more. There needs to be a sense of DOING in the activity for most people to be fully engaged. When listening, it&#8217;s being an active listener who critically thinks about what is said. If you&#8217;re not mentally there, you aren&#8217;t engaged. It&#8217;s fully being a part of the here and now, but to get somebody to do that usually requires some motivation. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Engagement isn&#8217;t just physical, it&#8217;s mental, emotional, temporal and much more. There needs to be a sense of DOING in the activity for most people to be fully engaged. When listening, it&#8217;s being an active listener who critically thinks about what is said. If you&#8217;re not mentally there, you aren&#8217;t engaged. It&#8217;s fully being a part of the here and now, but to get somebody to do that usually requires some motivation. [...]</p>
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